What Would You Do?

Annals of the Homestarmy

Friday, February 23. 2007

Posted by Daboo in Personal Entry

Comments (9)
Trackbacks (0)

I work with adolescent kids every day, some of whom are emotionally unstable, mentally disabled, uncontrolled train wrecks. But no child I have ever worked with seemed to be completely and utterly evil. I can see motive behind most of their bad behavior--it's the first step in refusing to be manipulated. In so doing, I can assess the situation to a point where I am almost always calm, in control, and even compassionate. I don't have huge discipline problems--I learned all my lessons last year, during my first year of teaching. Sure, sometimes I have to mentally step back and allow a student to fail--which is actually quite hard, but it is their right to do so--but again, there is always a motive, or something wrong, that prompts a kid to do stupid things. And by "stupid," sometimes I mean "bad."

Also, I am a religious person. I believe that every human being on this planet is a soul who chose to come to this earth. Sure, some are "brighter" (in many senses) than others, but they all have the potential to be wonderful, and to do good things and learn how to love each other. I do not believe that any person is inherently evil, although I am fully and depressingly convinced of our free will to choose evil should we wish to do so. But my philosophy here kind of points to evil as something that would HAVE to come with some time and experience in the human condition--i.e., the older a child gets, the more likely he is to become evil, because of his experiences and subsequent choices. That would mean that a child raised lovingly would be unlikely to become evil. Of course, it's possible, but it's very unlikely.

But lastly, I am also a little chaotic in nature (<.<) and I believe in the protection of society through reasonable necessary means, even when those means don't necessarily fall within the limits of what we understand as social law. If there is a person who is evil, that person must be eliminated somehow. Nothing else would be logical.

With all that in mind, I read this email, written (allegedly) by the stepmom of one of the monstrous, amoral kids who killed a homeless man. She paints him as 1. Socially deviant and emotionally unstable to an insane degree, 2. Inherently evil, and 3. A danger to every living thing in proximity. Clearly, from her account, this kid should be chemically lobotomized (er...that's my chaotic protection of society side speaking.)

I'm not sure what opinion to form here. Is she telling the truth? If so, WHAT WOULD YOU DO? If you were in her shoes, what could you do to protect the hapless victims surrounding this kid? Is she misleading us? Possibly...I have no way of knowing. But the person she portrayed in that email is someone who not only doesn't deserve saving--he is BEYOND it. He is utterly bad. Didn't she have a responsibility to...I don't know, accidentally "lose" him in the middle of the Atlantic? Do we HAVE a moral responsibility to protect the potential victims of people we know are capable of violent murder--nay, not just capable, but LIKELY TO COMMIT?

Trackbacks

Trackback specific URI for this entry

No Trackbacks

Comments

Display comments as (Linear | Threaded)

Wren on :

I couldn't read the entire email. It scared me too badly. What do you do with a kid like that? Is there anything you can do? Maybe lock him up so he's incapable of stealing anything and then starve him to the point of submission.. maybe you take a few classes on brainwashing, right, AOD? But what do you really do?
This article just reinforces to me that I should never be responsible for another human being's life. Ever. I feel like I myself am too unstable to be the shaping tool of someone else's clay. I'm never having kids, you guys.

Radar on :

Nice Op Ed. But I have a couple of questions:
1. Where was that link supposed to take me? When I clicked on it, it took me to penny arcade and an article about something called Olympus, which is apparently some kind of gaming institution. I was very confused.
2. What is your definition of "evil"?
3. At what point should someone be "controlled?"
4. What do you believe should be done?

I personally believe that you cannot control what someone might do. You take away their agency by doing that. But you also cannot just sit idly by and let things happen in the name of agency and free will. For the parent of a child that is likely to make such mistakes they must do all in their power to stop them and encourage good behavior. They may even need to take strict measures to see that it is done.

Allow me to share such an experiance: My father volunteers at my old high school in a couple of the agricultural shop classes (welding and small engine repair). He is retired and it gives him something to do. He loves it. One of the students that is now enrolled in the class was in his junior year hooked up with a gang at school. He dressed the part and acted the part. He was failing his classes and was in trouble all the time. He was in danger of being held back and being expelled. His parents took extreme measures. They took all of his things (clothes, games, etc.) and threw them away. They then went out and bought him several suits that he was then required to where to school everyday. They forbid him to be in the gang and set stirct guidelines on what he could and could not do with his time. Miraculously his grades improved. He wasn't in trouble anymore. His self esteem was much higher. He is now going to graduate and I believe that his grade point is above a 3.0. He managed to get into the ROP welding class without ever having been in a single welding class. He is doing very well (I have seen the bar-b-quer he is building and it looks great).

Not every child will allow themselves to be turned around like that. The boy could have just as easily gone the other way. But through loving parents and tough discipline he is now a success.

Once kids reach an age where they have come into their own (and no, I don't know what age that is) you must let them fly on their own and either fail or succeed on their own. Who are we to say they should be written off so quickly.

People change, and it is an eternal principle that God will strive to assist them to come back, as far as it is possible to do, despite the horrible things they might have done. He has helped Susan (a convert from Scotland), He helped Joey, and He helped me. I say He can do it for anyone else. But He needs us to be in the right place to do it.

Daboo on :

Scroll down; the email is under Gabe's post.

The Mad Giggler on :

I fixed the link to go to the correct page, but you will still have to scroll down. As for the kid, I don't know. Thankfully he's currently in custody, but what can you do to prevent that from happening? I need to read that entire email I guess and post my further thoughts.

Ancient of Days on :

I understand where this woman is coming from. I grew up with an older brother who, I imagine, was just as sick, just as evil as the kid she describes. I lived in terror of being literally murdered for much of my adolescence, until I finally found a way to become invaluable to him in order to protect myself. I also had an abusive father, to the extent that I have had my nose broken in two separate places, and that's just the permanent marks. So I hope you understand that I do not speak idly here when I say I believe I know what this woman lived through, and that I think I know at least a partial answer.

You see, he's not afraid of anything.

Honestly, I think it comes down to that. He knows that grounding and what-not are temporary states and that he can out-wait any sentence they are willing to impose on him. Somewhere along the way, probably very young, this kid discovered that his parents wouldn't (couldn't?) hurt him, and everything else flows out of that.

Perhaps I'm overly chaotic, but I think this could be solved simply by giving the kid something to fear. Consistent, immediate application of incredibly painful electroshock comes to mind. More conventionally, there are "voluntary enrollment" incarceration/correctional facilities.

At some level, we are all still animals, and when the appeal to higher reasoning has failed, we (society) have to start dealing with these individuals as the animals they have made themselves into.

Then again, there's a common situation wherein those who have been abused have a tendency to resort to abuse themselves, so maybe I'm completely wrong.

Ladybug on :

I think AoD's comments are very interesting. On a parallel tangent (?) I read a book on the girlfriend of Johnny Rotten, written by her mother after they suicided, who basically said the same things as this stepmom - the girl was born bad and the mother was afraid of her all her life. But as I read the book a got a definate picture of a weak-willed mother and a strong-willed daughter who learned very very early that she could get anything she wanted by manipulating and threatening the mother. Every story is one-sided, and I wonder if this stepmom and dad and mother were of the same type and the boy knew that none of the discipline would amount to anything in the long run. Maybe, like AoD says, he's not afraid of anyone or anything, because all his life adults scrambled to appease him, "help" him, etc.

That is not to say, however, that in these two examples the kid wasn't basically "bad", and learned young to manipulate people weaker than themselves because of that.

Ladybug on :

I realized my comments had nothing to do with Daboo's questions. So, as to the question of whether anyone is born inherently evil, I knew an evil guy once - from a good LDS family, too. It is because of him that I have wondered if some of the souls that fought on the side of Christ did so because under Lucifer's plan they would be forced to be good, and they wanted to choose evil.

Ancient of Days on :

In another example close to home, my brothers-in-law are wild. They pretty much completely ignore their parents and most of the other authority figures around them. However, within just a few months of being married to my wife, I made it clear to them that they WOULD listen to and obey me -- if only when they were in my house (her family has stayed with us a number of times).

And I never once had to cause physical damage to anyone. The threat, and their belief that I *WOULD* do so, has always been enough that now, her mother has told me she likes it when I visit because they generally behave when I'm around. Again, I'm not saying this is the only, or even the BEST solution -- however, I've found it to be *A* solution that works for me.

As much as I dislike being "that guy", I dislike being -- as Ladybug said -- a weak-willed authority figure even more.

Ancient of Days on :

You may very well have a point here. However, I think there *might* be something to be said for apply the principle of parsimony here: prefer least complicated explanation for an observation.

I would probably try to argue that the "least complicated" situation is that they made the choice somewhere in their second estate -- that is, their mortal lives -- to serve evil.

Abr. 3: 26
And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

I feel certain that in the case of my older brother, it was so. I could even describe the day I watched him make the decision, but I don't know that it would be at all a good thing to do so. It was a dark day, and I don't think there's anything to gain from dwelling overmuch on such things. (Sorry, sometimes the way my brain writes a sentence comes out a little bit stilted, but I never know how to fix it.)

Add Comment

Name

Homepage

Comment

In reply to

E-Mail addresses will not be displayed and will only be used for E-Mail notifications.

To prevent automated Bots from commentspamming, please enter the string you see in the image below in the appropriate input box. Your comment will only be submitted if the strings match. Please ensure that your browser supports and accepts cookies, or your comment cannot be verified correctly.
CAPTCHA